The Truth about Ex Church of Christ Forums

[Anastasis]

Hello everyone,

I am the forum administrator at Church of Christ Forums http://churchofchristforums.freeforums.org

I feel that I need to share some things with you in this post about the Ex Church of Christ Forums that are currently active on the net. I do not enjoy engaging in negative comments concerning other forums, but this is one exception about which I feel I at least need to give people a warning.

My experience with the Ex Church of Christ dialogue boards is that there is no actual dialogue taking place at all. The situation from what I have witnessed at these forums is that a continual and sustained propaganda campaign has been launched against any ideology or exegetical position that the mainline Church of Christ may commonly hold or even be perceived as holding. Ex Church of Christ Forums in all honesty are the single most biased, bigoted, unbalanced forums I have ever had the misfortune of visiting. I have literally seen atheistic forums that are more tolerant towards sharing various Biblical and exegetical views.

I have sensed nothing at all on the forums except purely negative gripe sessions concerning anything to do with the Church of Christ. Even the apparently 'positive' Bible study threads are slanted in such a way as to distance and separate themselves from anything that the Church of Christ may hold or even be assumed to hold.

That is not how this Church of Christ Forums will be run. If someone has a legitimate gripe or corrective that may be of aid to the community of faith then they may share it as long as they do so in a spirit of love and studious and honest exegetical research. I have seen that this is usually the way Church of Christ DB is run as well, and I commend the admins for doing just that.

When I first visited Ex Church of Christ Forums I was hoping to gain insights into some of the gripes and complaints that the members may hold. What I have found more times then not is that the majority of members are first and foremost almost unbelievably ignorant of, or rather illiterate of the Bible in almost every way. Personal opinions, feelings, majority sway, the mood of the moment, and worldy conditioned popular culture reign supreme at Ex Church of Christ Forums.

I would have some empathy for these people if I sensed in them that they were actually seeking to further their knowledge in Christ. But I do not sense that at all. I sense or see in this community nothing that would indicate to me that the majority of them are concerned for much of anything but engaging in verbal assaults, whether passive or aggressive, against the Church of Christ. But this will not do. It is simply not a manifestation of Christian discipleship to ally oneself with the so-called Ex Church of Christ forums and then live out one's life in negative reactionarianism. But I have become convinced that most of them have completely brainwashed themselves in negative reactionarianism and conditioned themselves as severely as Pavalov's dogs. It is not only that they are utterly biased at this time, it is that in their current state of mind, they cannot be anything but biased and far, far out of line, even to the point of being outraI feel that I need to share some things with you in this post about the Ex Church of Christ Forums that are currently active on the net. I do not enjoy engaging in negative comments concerning other forums, but this is one exception about which I feel I at least need to give people a warning.

The climate at Ex Church of Christ Forums is toxic, negative, rebellious, petty, sarcastic, lazy, irreverent, and ignorant. Its 'loving' façade is just that - a façade. I highly discourage people from spending much time there at all lest they be poisoned with the same serpent's poison with which I perceive many among that bunch to have been completely filled.

There are problems in the Churches of Christ. There is no doubt about that and I think everyone can acknowledge that fact. But the sort of negative smear campaign that Ex Church of Christ Forums now performing will result in nothing but the spread of negative feelings for Christianity in general and the loss of many souls involved in such negativity.

Whatever spirit they are after at Ex Church of Christ Forums, I know this much, it is not after the Spirit of Christ.

[David Ong]

Hi anastasis,

Please proof read your post. The paragraphs are repeated and I am confused.

David
edit: thanks !

[Anastasis]

Hi anastasis,

Please proof read your post. The paragraphs are repeated and I am confused.

David

Thank you David. I wrote this on a word processor and must have hit the paste button twice.

I am sorry for having to post this. And if you need to edit anything in my post that you feel to be inappropriate to this forum, I understand.

I simply present what I have stated above in good faith. I honestly feel that Ex Church of Christ Forums is accomplishing nothing positive within the faith community and is in fact a growing cancer. I have no problems with questioning or even completely re-examining our faith and theological positions at all times. But the dialectic stance that Ex Church of Christ Forums posited for itself is severely unhealthy at best and outright sinful at worst. I sense no other real ethos at these forums than the purest venom. And people need to know what they are getting themselves into at those boards.

[pfalcon]

Hi Anastasis,

I understand your concern. Clearly it's a growing problem, not only in the forums, but offline as well. We would do well to keep ourselves, while warning others as well.

[Anastasis]

Hi Anastasis,

I understand your concern. Clearly it's a growing problem, not only in the forums, but offline as well. We would do well to keep ourselves, while warning others as well.

Thank you for the response, pfalcon. I cannot state what others may have experienced at Ex Church of Christ forums, I can only speak from my own experience. I want to stress the point that I believe it can be a healthy undertaking to always seek to re-examine one's beliefs and practices. This can and will most often lead to continual growth. If there is ancient, apostolic, and Biblical truth that the church may discover that it has not as fully manifested as it could or should, then I believe 'change' in that regard is positive and needed.

Churches of Christ are autonomous. The exact ways and means of churches in the southern United States may differ in some expediencies with those of New England, and churches in the states may look far different in outer appearance than churches in Europe or Asia. We are approaching an era of communication convergence where it is quite possible for churches and Christians from all parts of the globe to communicate and share with one another. This communication and sharing can be an extremely positive thing. Yet herein may also be a problem. If a few members of such and such congregation have a controversy over some issue and decide that they hate the churches of Christ, any one is now able to start an email discussion list, or google group and start spreading negative propaganda which may or may not be true.

So, there is great potential for good or ill through these technological communication outlets. We are able to post sermons, song, praise, and meditations on scripture on Youtube or some other site and reach far more people per day with the gospel message than we could have first imagined. But for all of our potential force of good that we could produce in Christ and for Christ is only as positive or beneficial as it is based upon the Apostolic Faith revealed in scripture.

What I have noticed happening at Ex Church of Christ is that some passages of the New Testament will be broadcast boldly to the four winds of heaven, while others are conveniently ignored or outright concealed. Just one example of what I am saying is the fact that I made a few statements on the board concerning 1 Tim. 2:12-14. You could have heard a pin drop, and one would have thought I had committed a mortal sin even by mentioning the passage. I was ignored, side-stepped, laughed at, etc... But nonetheless, the passage was never dealt with. I literally could NOT find even one person who would have a discussion concerning this passage. It was totally and blatantly ignored, my posts were deleted, and I was banned.

This is what I am talking about. This example along with several others that I could give is what has led me to see Ex Church of Christ Forums in a different light. I no longer hold them to be the erring yet earnest sheep I once gave them the benefit of the doubt to be. I now have evidence that many or most of them not only being wilfully erring, but not in earnest either. The atmosphere at the boards is almost cultic ( if not veritably cultic) in nature and it is an example of the root of bitterness having grown up and produced poisonous fruit.

What I am saying is this, even if every church of Christ on the face of this earth were in total error and doctrinal heresy concerning this, that, or the other, what is occuring at Ex Church of Christ Forums is no better and is far worse. It is a poison to the mind that if I am reading various scriptures correctly will do nothing but increase ungodliness and the poison and cancer of negativity, blindness, and confusion among the persons involved. The Ex Church of Christ Forums will result in nothing but ministering an Ex Gospel to Ex Christians. It will not save because there is no positive force of the Glad Tidings there. Almost every issue discussed there is done in a perspective, spirit, and method of scepticism, doubt, questionings, confusion, and imbalance, and emotive reactionarianism.

The churches of Christ worldwide may all have their problems and issues that arise. I think that we can all strive to help our brothers and sisters worldwide. But in the end, there is no such thing as a Church of Christ diocese. Every congregation is absolutely and totally independent and autonomous of the other. That is why statements which stereo-type the 'Church of Christ' cannot possibly be accurate, because there is no way of telling what a 'church of Christ' in Arizona will do differently or the same as a 'church of Christ' in Kenya.

Will it cure a sick person if the doctor pulls him out of a quagmire and then injects him with rattlesnake poison? The Ex Church of Christ Forum has set itself in a position of antithetical dialectical opposition to the Church of Christ. Therefore I would assume that the persons involved in its administration believe that its ways and views will be the 'cure' for the supposed illnesses of the Church of Christ worldwide. I have seen nothing on those boards that would indicate to me that anything is happening except that the sick are getting sicker, the bitter are becoming more bitter, the ignorant are increasing in ignorance, the ungodly are becoming more ungodly, the mockers mock progressively more loudly, the sceptics are becoming more sceptical, and the lost are going even further astray then they were beforehand. These comments are not about doctrine alone, I am speaking of the spirit, ethos, and pathos that are the modus operandi at those forums.

Everyone is able to make their own decisions and come to there own conclusions. But what I have written is my conclusion on the whole matter of Ex Church of Christ Forums. It it for all to consider whether there is salt in these words, or whether I am just speaking from my own. But I warn you. The spirit and energy that are active and energized at Ex Church of Christ forums are from Satan himself. There is nothing benign about it. I do not know who is all behind these forums, and that is why I am not so certain that all of it even comes from the so-called 'ex-church of Christers'. I'm simply saying that I know that the Church of Christ has enemies many, numerous, and powerful who are attempting to grind away at its very foundations. And I for one do not simply believe that all of it comes from disgruntled former members. I wonder who the unseen players really are?

[pfalcon]

Hi Anastasis,

I hear you loud and clear. I think we needn't worry about so many who are opposing us, for these who disagree and oppose us are in fact disagreeing and opposing the teachings of the Bible, which comes from God, which is what we set out to teach and preach in the first place.

If they are bent on teaching error, then so be it. We will do our part, and at the end of the day, we know Rom 1:16, Heb 4:12, while we keep 1 Cor 15:58 at the back of our minds as well.

God bless.

[Bing]

My experience with the Ex Church of Christ dialogue boards is that there is no actual dialogue taking place at all. The situation from what I have witnessed at these forums is that a continual and sustained propaganda campaign has been launched against any ideology or exegetical position that the mainline Church of Christ may commonly hold or even be perceived as holding. Ex Church of Christ Forums in all honesty are the single most biased, bigoted, unbalanced forums I have ever had the misfortune of visiting. I have literally seen atheistic forums that are more tolerant towards sharing various Biblical and exegetical views.

What I have found more times then not is that the majority of members are first and foremost almost unbelievably ignorant of, or rather illiterate of the Bible in almost every way.


The climate at Ex Church of Christ Forums is toxic, negative, rebellious, petty, sarcastic, lazy, irreverent, and ignorant. Its 'loving' façade is just that - a façade. I highly discourage people from spending much time there at all lest they be poisoned with the same serpent's poison with which I perceive many among that bunch to have been completely filled.

I think some of the tings you are stating here are both contradictory and also the very reason many people have negative experiences with the churches of Christ.

While I do not agree with things tuaght on that board I would not say that the majority of the members are ignorant of the Bible, rather the opposite. As a matter of fact, many of them used to be preachers and teachers in the churches of Christ. Just because someone has a different interpretation than you does not mean that they are illiterate about the Bible.

I also have a problem about "warning" people to not spend much time reading what others think. That is a typical cult mentality. Let people read for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

I ceratinly do not think that the adjectives you use to describe that board is related to a spirit of love.

[Bing]

Hi Anastasis,

I hear you loud and clear. I think we needn't worry about so many who are opposing us, for these who disagree and oppose us are in fact disagreeing and opposing the teachings of the Bible, which comes from God, which is what we set out to teach and preach in the first place.


God bless.

I can't think of a statment more arrogant than this. "If you disagree with me you are wrong, because I know the Bible better than you."

[buck jr]

The sad fact, I feel, as one who fell away from the faith and has returned, is that is what has happened to the people on these sites. They have fallen away and in their heart they know that they will not find peace anywhere unless they return to the truth.

[KennyG]

Hi,

I am a regular poster on the "ex" website. I find it interesting that the focus of discussion here is on what is wrong with the people who left, what is wrong with what they say and how they've fallen away. What if a person was harmed in a C of C somewhere, and left and found themselves alone without any support and was hurting? I am a person who prefers to cast nets, not stones. I'd go to that person and gather information. If I needed to change something about me, maybe I'd do it. I would not use language that asserts their failures before I knew what happened.

I'm guessing that people here will act as if no wrong was done to those who left. That they've rejected Jesus, not the C of C.

By the way, I use the same moniker there, and am happy to discuss anything I've said. I generally try to not escalate arguments, but to look deeply at what is being said to make sure I understand it, to make sure it is a valid question/statement, and to answer it honestly. I hope we can have conversation, at least for a little while. thanks, sincerely, Kenny

[didi]

The climate at Ex Church of Christ Forums is toxic, negative, rebellious, petty, sarcastic, lazy, irreverent, and ignorant. Its 'loving' façade is just that - a façade. I highly discourage people from spending much time there at all lest they be poisoned with the same serpent's poison with which I perceive many among that bunch to have been completely filled.

* * *
Whatever spirit they are after at Ex Church of Christ Forums, I know this much, it is not after the Spirit of Christ.

Anastasis' post seems to me to be a clear violation of this board's own legal terms, which state in part, "You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Church Of Christ Discussion Board/Forum” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions."

Surely this person has been banned, as the terms suggest? Certainly, the poisonous words in that post have done nothing to influence me to consider the modern-day church of Christ as the legitimate blueprint for Jesus' church.

[melchizedek]

The climate at Ex Church of Christ Forums is toxic, negative, rebellious, petty, sarcastic, lazy, irreverent, and ignorant. Its 'loving' façade is just that - a façade. I highly discourage people from spending much time there at all lest they be poisoned with the same serpent's poison with which I perceive many among that bunch to have been completely filled.

* * *
Whatever spirit they are after at Ex Church of Christ Forums, I know this much, it is not after the Spirit of Christ.

Anastasis' post seems to me to be a clear violation of this board's own legal terms, which state in part, "You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Church Of Christ Discussion Board/Forum” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions."

Surely this person has been banned, as the terms suggest? Certainly, the poisonous words in that post have done nothing to influence me to consider the modern-day church of Christ as the legitimate blueprint for Jesus' church.

In my opinion, I don't see anything in Anastasis' post, that is in violation of this forum's rules... the comment is neither abusive, nor obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening or sexually oriented...

I happen to come across a few former coc forums, and believe that the description is pretty accurate.

Not all words are intended to influence someone to consider something... A warning, is simply that, a warning...

Perhaps you are simply looking for an excuse NOT to consider the teachings of the first century christians as the blueprint for Jesus' church? IF that is the case, if that is your attitude toward finding the truth, you most certainly will not find it...

[dmdk66]

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I read in one of your earlier posts about how mean and abusive ex church of Christ people are. Allow me to explain something. I was a preacher in the church of Christ almost 25 years. I am no longer part of your fellowship. But I love the Lord now more than I ever did. In fact I was an elder in an large Calvary Chapel for 3 years. Am currently teaching several Bible studies. I have a joy and a peace that I've never experienced before, but only had read about in the Scriptures.

I think the reason why so many ex-members are so abusive at times is because, the greater the hurt, the greater the anger. This in no way justifies their non-Christ-like-behavior; it only serves to explain their emotions. I too was angry at the church for a number of years for the legalism, unforgiving spirit, and so on. Since that time the Lord has softened me and made me to realize that I need to pray for the church of Christ. I still have many friends in the church who are truly devoted to the Lord. Many in the church, like I was; I don't believe are "born again." (John 3). But my desire here is not to get into a Scriptural debate(even though that temptation looms heavy in my heart to do so); rather, just to explain that the ill behavior is due to the intensity of the pain. One thing the church of Christ did teach me that is of immense value is to have a chapter and verse for what you believe. Yes, I do believe that the church's heart is in the right place most of the time, but the application of those chapters and verses has been misinterpreted.

Charles Hodge (a preacher in the church of Christ) said something really thought provoking. He said that there may be 3 surprises in Heaven. The first surprise may be that we're there. The second surprise will be who isn't there. The third surprise is who is there! May the Lord Jesus be praised in all we say and do!

Be Blessed!

[melchizedek]

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I read in one of your earlier posts about how mean and abusive ex church of Christ people are. Allow me to explain something.
I think the reason why so many ex-members are so abusive at times is because, the greater the hurt, the greater the anger. This in no way justifies their non-Christ-like-behavior; it only serves to explain their emotions. I too was angry at the church for a number of years for the legalism, unforgiving spirit, and so on.

It is very true, that there are congregations of the Lord's Body out there, where the elderships have gone astray, they don't know what it means to love, to speak with kindness, they may lord over the congregation, they may offend christians with their behavior. I've attended a congregation, where the elders were more concerned with disfellowshiping members who missed some meetings, then with learning why they've missed them.
God, has given us knowledge, or instructions on how to deal with those kind of people, this knowledge is found in the Bible, i.e the New Testament...a friend, or maybe the preacher, or the elders, may point one to the right path, but the decision to follow the Way is up to the individual. The elders, the preacher are not going to feed you spiritual food for ever, the individual christian must study, read, and search scriptures daily, this is again individual thing. Spiritual growth comes from individual applying themselves. If one's faith is built on a preacher, or an elder and that elder is mean to them once, that individual will leave, like a spoiled child, grunting and screaming and kicking all the way out, and from then on. This is not an anger issue, this is an example of spoiled brat, a childish attitude, that is so prominent today.

You said that you were angry at the church... do you even realize what you're saying? Is it possible to be angry at the Body of Christ? Even if by church you meant the congregation you were attending, it is still not possible... are you saying that you were angry with every member of that congregation? I find it hard to believe. What all those angry people are suffering from is the lack of knowledge. This is not a new thing.
Hosea 4

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being My priest
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.

Just like the Israelites were worshiping false gods, so christians today can forget the true God, and turn to the gods they prefer. They reject knowledge, available to them, and create their own idea of what God is, and what He wants and how He wants to be worshiped. They introduce fallacies into congregations, false doctrines, ideas that are not based on the Bible, but on the worldy denominationalism, on the emotions, the "feel good" preaching, the "we're all saved let's not fight" ideas and when the elders oppose them they cry "legalists!, where is LOVE?!? I'm leaving this place and never coming back!" Now, don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for everything. There may be a time or reason for one to leave a certain congregation, but only if that one goes to another congregation of the Body of Christ! A congregation that strives and defends the truth.

One thing the church of Christ did teach me that is of immense value is to have a chapter and verse for what you believe. Yes, I do believe that the church's heart is in the right place most of the time, but the application of those chapters and verses has been misinterpreted.

Again, whose church are we talking about here? Christ's or someone else? I just don't understand such general statements, they don't make sense to me. How can the whole Church of Christ misinterpret and misapply certain chapter and verses? Each congregation of the Body is autonomous, and you are saying that they all autonomously, independent from each other, "misinterpreted" certain scriptures? I mean what are the chances of that happening with just one scripture? Have you ever though about it somewhere along these lines: "maybe it's not them... maybe it's me?"

2 Timothy 3

14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

[dmdk66]

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of course I'm not referring to every member. This is that legalistic spirit again. I'm very much in love with many in the former church I preached at. I was merely trying to explain the behavior of some that is not Christ-like. It's like a wife that has been abused by her husband. Sometimes (not always), she'll be against all men for awhile because of her singular experience with one man. This does not justify her responses in all cases, merely explains it. Many former members of the CoC have been so hurt by their previous church that they strike out at almost anyone from that faith system. This of course is true of any church of any faith where one has had a similar experience. Just explaining the human make-up. I have dear friends in the CoC. We no longer see eye-to-eye, that's all. I had been the preacher at 4 different CoC during my 20 year preaching career and they were all legalistic to some degree but one of them was leaning the other way which was refreshing. And on the positive front, I see more and more CoC becoming more open and understanding than ever before. In fact I've read many articles from Rubey Shelly and Max Lucaddo which are truly positive, uplifting and refreshing. There was a time when many in the CoC felt like they were the only ones going to heaven (I know this first hand from my experience as a preacher), but there is a shift taking place there too which is encouraging. Just like those who are legalistic need grace, so do those ex-church members who are angry need grace and understanding as well. Is their behavior sinful? Yes! Does the Lord still love them? Yes! Just keep loving them back no many how many times they say hurtful things, and love will rule the day! God Bless!

[KennyG]

When I first visited Ex Church of Christ Forums I was hoping to gain insights into some of the gripes and complaints that the members may hold. What I have found more times then not is that the majority of members are first and foremost almost unbelievably ignorant of, or rather illiterate of the Bible in almost every way. Personal opinions, feelings, majority sway, the mood of the moment, and worldy conditioned popular culture reign supreme at Ex Church of Christ Forums. I would have some empathy for these people if I sensed in them that they were actually seeking to further their knowledge in Christ.

Then you probably weren’t reading to gain insight, but to build ammunition. The ex-COC forum is a support group, and as such is pretty raw sometimes. Jesus didn’t come to heal the healthy, and we should not expect people who are hurting and who need Jesus to have a spirit of love towards the people who damaged them, and to be studious, etc. How do you expect someone to behave who has been deeply hurt? Not everyone who walks into a COC comes out intact.

The climate at Ex Church of Christ Forums is toxic, negative, rebellious, petty, sarcastic, lazy, irreverent, and ignorant. Its 'loving' façade is just that - a façade. I highly discourage people from spending much time there at all lest they be poisoned with the same serpent's poison with which I perceive many among that bunch to have been completely filled.

Again, the people at ex-COC are usually there because they were damaged in a toxic, negative, ignorant, and petty congregation. They come to that forum seeking help to recover and find a place that is edifying and builds them up and teaches how to live by faith.

Whatever spirit they are after at Ex Church of Christ Forums, I know this much, it is not after the Spirit of Christ

It is a spirit of “let’s get past the suffering and move on and grow and discover the love of God. Let’s figure out how to live by faith.” But truth be told, some people are so damaged that they stay away from all churches, not just the damaging ones, for long periods of time. That is not a great legacy for churches of Christ.

Sometimes people don't realize how hurt other people are, and are quick to judge them. I think Christians are to be first-responders to crises of faith. When God puts a drug addict in front of you, you will see some nasty stuff. When I arrive in heaven I will not have clean eyes and ears, that's for sure. I will have heard much and seen much. The first rule of evangelism is that you get down on your knees before you leave the house, because when you are in God's presence, the ugliness of the world doesn't offend you. When Isaiah was cleansed in Isaiah 6, he didn't even ask what the job was, he just said "here, send me". The ugliness of the world just rolls off your back like water from a duck.

That is the attitude of evangelism, not complaints about the behavior of some support group. We are called first, to share our faith, to bring people in, not to be gatekeepers for Christ.