submitting to husband question ..

[Ilene.Ree]

dunno why i'm posting this while im sick and just got back from work -.- *ssighh
but anyway it's been lagging on my mind for a while.
ok i lie, it was on my mind for like a day then i forgot about it.
but anyway david asked for bible dsicussions so here goes.

im lazy (and very bad i know, i promise to find and edit later) to find the scripture relating to this, but i'm sure you all know it, i promise to post it later when i find it.
the one is ephesians talking about women submitting to their husbands.
does this apply to nonchristian husbands as well?
because while in most situations it should be ok.

lets say the husband is nonchristian and says to the wife, i am taking the family for a picnic on sunday morning.
the wife says, no, i have to go to church. (insert verse about not forsaking the assembly of God)
then a big fight starts up.
if the wife goes to church, technicaly disobeying the husband therefore not submitting, is this REALLY disobeying the scripture as well?
because isn't it contradictory if in order to obey the scripture about forsaking the assembly, she has to disobey the scripture about submitting to her husband?

please correct me if i have misread the scriptures or anything, or theres a simple answer to this..

=]]

[pfalcon]

Ok, first of all, why not put a proper subject as the subject. What I mean is, ok so this is about marriage, so maybe the subject should be Marriage? or MDR? Anyway...

So yes, Eph 5:22 says that wives must submit to husbands just as they do the Lord.

The reason for this is give in the next verse, that the husband is head of the wife, just like Christ is also head of the church.

One important principle we want to remember is that the laws and teachings of the Bible apply to EVERYONE, because EVERYONE will be judged by the same God in the last day. John 12:48 says the Word will judge us in the last day.

Now that we've made that point, it's easy to answer your question, Irene. Because then, every command should be obeyed by all men, and that including laws on marriage.

Why I need to make this point is because some people believe that the conditions for divorce as given by Jesus only applies to Christians, and non-Christians are free to do whatever they like. But that's not what the Bible suggests. Since the beginning of the world, Jesus instituted marriage, and even when non-Christian couples get married, God still sanctifies them. And if God sanctifies non-Christian marriage, then He also has the right to determine His own conditions for divorce.

So, coming back to this question, we need to remember another thing.
Ps 119:160 says that the totality of Your word is truth.

Hence, we need to look at other verses within its context which talk about the same topic and see what they say.
In 1 Peter 3:1, Peter wrote, by inspiration of the HS(not Hao Shen +.+), that the purpose of wives submitting to husbands is to win them over by their good conduct.

So, sensibly, if the wife does not go to church on Sundays (which would be part of her chaste conduct), then she defeats the purpose of trying to win her husband's soul. In addition, in speaking to the authorities in Acts 5, Peter and the other apostles angered the high priest in that they disobeyed the government for they were told not to preach the gospel, but Peter's answer was, "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29). I think things are clear now.

Having said that, I would like to stress that the Bible was given by God not to make our lives on Earth miserable, but rather that we would be able to study it, follow it such that we can have better lives here on Earth before we pass on. So it is important that we study the Bible in remembrance of that.

Woot!!!
-Se@n

[Roger B]

lets say the husband is nonchristian and says to the wife, i am taking the family for a picnic on sunday morning.
the wife says, no, i have to go to church. (insert verse about not forsaking the assembly of God)
then a big fight starts up.
if the wife goes to church, technicaly disobeying the husband therefore not submitting, is this REALLY disobeying the scripture as well?
because isn't it contradictory if in order to obey the scripture about forsaking the assembly, she has to disobey the scripture about submitting to her husband?

please correct me if i have misread the scriptures or anything, or theres a simple answer to this..

=]]

I somewhat disagree with 'pfalcon'.

Scriptural conduct is not for the world, it if for Christians only. I didn't say it is not good for the world to follow it, however, in the end it will do them no good in the eye's of God.

When a married women becomes a Christian, or a Christian women that marries a unsaved man, she is under the husbands authority, as unto the Lord. If the husband says, 'you're not going to church anymore', she must obey her husband, because God has put the husbands authority over the wife. She is not commiting sin by obeying her husband, for she is under his and God's authority.

Imagine the marriage if the women disobey's her husband, she will sin against God and her husband.
And, their will be a chism between the husband and the wife; by God's design for her to obey her husband, there wouldn't be a chism between them.

The only recourse the wife has is to pray for her husbands release to attend church, and also for his salvation.

Now, one might ask, "what if the husband sends the wife out to prostute for money'?" This she is not to obey, because it is against the word of God. The husband is going against God, and this she is not to obey.

[buck jr]

But is the man wrong by asking her to disobey the forsaking assembly verse?

[Roger B]

But is the man wrong by asking her to disobey the forsaking assembly verse?

In the above scenario, the husband is not a Christian, and he's wrong to ask her to disobey the foresaking of assembling together. If he were a Christian, he'd be wrong too, but a non-Christian can't please God in anything they do.

Since, a husband is the head of the house, the wife is under his authority 'as unto the Lord', whether he is a Christian, or a non-Christian; the godly conduct of a women keeps a marriage out of trouble. The wife may be able to lead her lost husband to salvation with the impression of her godly conduct. If she disobey's her husband, it's quite unlikely she'd be able to lead him to salvation.

Of course, a Christian isn't suppose to marry a non-Christian, as they would be unequally yoked together. But, sometimes one side of the married finds Christ, and they are unequally yoked together, that doesn't mean God wants them to divorce. That's why the bible speaks of not knowing if you can saved the other person in the marriage.

[buck jr]

I do not see where this can be true, Matt. 10-37 speaks of one loving one more than Christ is not worthy of Christ, and to say you should disobey Christ, who is head of all, in favor of obeying a unbelieving husband is in my opinion places the institution of marriage above the Gospel, which can not be. The woman obeying the husband would just reinforce his belief that his authority is over that of Christ himself.

[Roger B]

I do not see where this can be true, Matt. 10-37 speaks of one loving one more than Christ is not worthy of Christ, and to say you should disobey Christ, who is head of all, in favor of obeying a unbelieving husband is in my opinion places the institution of marriage above the Gospel, which can not be. The woman obeying the husband would just reinforce his belief that his authority is over that of Christ himself.

Marriage is an image of Jesus and his bride, the church; a picture of Jesus’ love for his church.


HOW DID JESUS LOVE HIS CHURCH?

Jesus gave his life for the church…….
Ephesians 5:25 (KJV) … 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT;


HOW ARE WE (CHRISTIANS) TO LOVE GOD?

With all our heart, soul, and might…….
Deuteronomy 6:5 (KJV) … 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine HEART, and with all thy SOUL, and with all thy MIGHT.
Mark 12:30 (KJV) … 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy HEART, and with all thy SOUL, and with all thy MIND, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.


HOW ARE HUSBANDS TO LOVE THEIR WIVES?

Enough to give our life for one’s wife…….
Ephesians 5:24-25 (KJV) … 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it;


IF WE LOVE SOMEONE ELSE MORE THAN GOD, WE ARE NOT WORTHY.

Matthew 10:37 (KJV) … 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

HOW ARE WE TO REGARD OUR PARENTS?

As authorities with honor……..
Matthew 15:1-4 (KJV) … 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.


HOW ARE WE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR?

As ourselves……..
Matthew 19:19 (KJV) … 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
We are to give our life for our wife’s, but it isn’t possible to give our lives for ourselves, neither are we to give our life for our neighbor. Jesus didn’t give his life for a neighbor, but the church. A neighbor refers to the lost, not the church.


With all of that said, it defines whom we are to love and how much.

A wife should have a reverential fear for her husband (love, honor, and obey). The husband should love her so much as to give his life for hers if necessary.

If ANY husband doesn’t allow his wife to attend church, she is to love, honor and obey him. However, if a husband told the wife to prostitute for him, she is not to obey what is obviously not a godly order and break a moral code of conduct; a sinful and clear act not representative of the conduct of Jesus Christ.

Neither does this dishonorable order to prostitute, express the love of the husband for his wife, to give herself to others.
Now, to give an answer about your comments regarding love: only God and Jesus are we to love with all of our SOUL. To whom we love with our SOUL, we are intrusting our SOUL to that person. This we are NOT to do with our wife or neighbor, but ONLY God!

Jesus did NOT give his SOUL to the church, but to God, he gave his LIFE for the church.

If a wife obeyed her husband’s command to prostitute, she would effectively be loving her husband more than God. Thus, she is willingly to do anything he says, which is effectively giving him her very soul and not God. (She is willing to serve evil rather than good at the husbands (evil) command.)

Love, honor, and obey the husband whether he loves God or not, this is a scriptural marriage even for the unequally yoked together; it prevents marriage issues. A scriptural marriage is two becoming one in agreement with God. However, by God’s design, if the wife in the marriage becomes a Christian, and the other isn’t, she is not to obey evil morals of conduct; this is loving God more than her husband because she is obeying God rather than to submit herself to a moral sin. Also, to enter into a lifestyle of prostitution is turning from God, and salvation would be lost.

The godly and moral lifestyle of a wife, can and has is some cases changed a husband’s lifestyle and their souls destination.

Not attending church doesn’t change one’s lifestyle; moral conduct does.

A new Christian wife must work for her husband’s soul, while representing Christ.

[Roger B]

One important principle we want to remember is that the laws and teachings of the Bible apply to EVERYONE, because EVERYONE will be judged by the same God in the last day. John 12:48 says the Word will judge us in the last day.

Now that we've made that point, it's easy to answer your question, Irene. Because then, every command should be obeyed by all men, and that including laws on marriage.

Why I need to make this point is because some people believe that the conditions for divorce as given by Jesus only applies to Christians, and non-Christians are free to do whatever they like. But that's not what the Bible suggests. Since the beginning of the world, Jesus instituted marriage, and even when non-Christian couples get married, God still sanctifies them. And if God sanctifies non-Christian marriage, then He also has the right to determine His own conditions for divorce.

The lost are lost, and are not God's people. God's teachings of the Bible does NOT apply to the lost. God doesn't expect the lost to obey his teaching of the Bible, they apply only to believers. Whatever married non-Christians do to obey God's scriptual marriage plan is totally egnored by God; it won't help the lost married couples relationship with God whatsoever, other than to make a good marriage before they go to Hell.

Don't expect the lost to follow the 'do's and don't' of God's word, because they are ONLY meant for God's children. Salvation isn't of works, there's more to it than that alone.

I humbly submit this for your consideration.

[buck jr]

1Cor 7- 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
since it says brother or sister, bondage, in this case does not mean the physical ownership, as in the time of the writing a man could own a woman and marry her. So it seems to me that it is referring to the bonds of marriage, True that the woman should submit herself to the man in all things "Godly" If the man asks her to do anything against the commandments of God, prostitution or forsaking the assembly, both are sins. Therefore the woman is not under bondage and if the man departs because she obeyed God rather than an unbelieving husband she is to "let him depart".

[Roger B]

1Cor 7- 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
since it says brother or sister, bondage, in this case does not mean the physical ownership, as in the time of the writing a man could own a woman and marry her. So it seems to me that it is referring to the bonds of marriage, True that the woman should submit herself to the man in all things "Godly" If the man asks her to do anything against the commandments of God, prostitution or forsaking the assembly, both are sins. Therefore the woman is not under bondage and if the man departs because she obeyed God rather than an unbelieving husband she is to "let him depart".

A bit more context......
1 Corinthians 7:12-16 (KJV) … 12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?


Verse 15 continues the thoughts of verse 14, so that in verse 15, if the “unbelieving depart, let HIM depart” is the husband departing from his wife, or by divorce. However, a divorce doesn’t have to take place when one leaves the other, unless there’s cause for marrying someone else. A (Christian) brother or sister that departs is not under bondage in such cases; they may remarry someone else and it will not be adultery.

God’s marriage plan doesn’t include the lost, His plan is for Christians. A Christian isn’t knowingly supposed to marry a lost person, as we are not to be unequally yoked together. But, one in a lost marriage might find salvation and become unequally yoked together.

Suppose a husband and wife are both lost, their marriage and/or divorce is NOT recognized by God. But suppose one of them finds salvation, now they are unequally yoked together, and God’s marriage plan is for the one saved. This person is not under the bondage of marriage with God’s plan, the brother or sister may leave without being charged with adultery if they marry someone else. However, it is not God’s desire that they should leave, because…. ‘what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save they wife?

If the Christian in this unequal marriage does go by God’s marriage plan, the marriage will be full of strife, stress, heartache, … etc, and most likely they will not be able to save the other. On the other hand, when a Christian does live by God’s marriage plan, even an unequal marriage will not suffer. Although, some Christian men are falsely persuaded that their position as husband is power and authority over the wife, so much so, that loving her is an afterthought, rather than being his first thoughts. A man’s authority and power is more in the light of a RESPONSIBILITY for her care and provision; in the likeness of caring and providing for one’s children.

Yes, prostitution and forsaking the assembly are both sins, but forsaking the assembly under the rule of marriage rest on the head of the household, not on the wife who is under his authority. A Christian woman is not committing a sin as she obeys her husband’s God given authority; she is in compliance with God’s word concerning scriptural marriage.

In such a case, A WOMAN IS NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLY OF HER OWN WILL, BUT OF HER HUSBAND’S, whom God will charge for this sin, because it is not God’s will that a husband restrict his Christian wife from attending church. The sin will not lie on her head, but his, and the marriage doesn’t suffer by God’s design, of which HE doesn’t want the wife to leave, not knowing whether or not she can save him by her willingness to obey him, and God.

However, at the same time if the wife disobeys her husband and stresses the marriage, it would be doubtful she could save him while she is in disobedience of his will.

[buck jr]

Philippians 2:12
So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
We are accountable to God for our own salvation, I know of no scripture to back up the statement that someone else is responsible for a sin that a Christian commits, especially by the demand of an unbeliever, If you can say that the woman has the right to leave the unbelieving husband and marry a believer, she surely must have the right to to ignore his demand, to honor Gods commandment to not forsake the assembly. I stand by the logic earlier stated, that her disobeying God in favor of an unbelieving husband will only reinforce his belief that he is superior to Gods word. And as a Christian, man, woman, married or single, we are subject to God first. Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

[Roger B]

Philippians 2:12
So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
We are accountable to God for our own salvation, I know of no scripture to back up the statement that someone else is responsible for a sin that a Christian commits, especially by the demand of an unbeliever, If you can say that the woman has the right to leave the unbelieving husband and marry a believer, she surely must have the right to to ignore his demand, to honor Gods commandment to not forsake the assembly. I stand by the logic earlier stated, that her disobeying God in favor of an unbelieving husband will only reinforce his belief that he is superior to Gods word. And as a Christian, man, woman, married or single, we are subject to God first. Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Serving two masters; are you suggesting that a woman is serving two masters because scripture directs the woman to obey her husband as unto the Lord?

Should a woman regard some scriptures over another? If she doesn’t obey her husband, is the husband to love his wife anyway? If the husband doesn’t love her because of her disobedience, is he obeying God?

One should avoid all assumptions regarding God’s word: “If you can say that .......... she surely must have the right to ignore his demand...”

“... we are subject to God first”, is a woman putting God second if she obeys her husband as unto the Lord? Isn’t she obeying the Lord and her husband, if he commands her not to attend church? And, if she disobeys her husband, isn’t she disobeying the Lord and her husband?

Logic can be faulty when it’s based upon feelings.

[buck jr]

My dear brother, I have shown several scriptures that have direct relation to this subject, not assumptions. For your interpretation to be correct, it would be in conflict with all of them. The Bible is perfect, so the answer to the original question must adhere to all scripture. And the God given authority of the man over the woman cannot be shown by any scripture to extend to the point of her obeying him over God. Your logic, as you keep refering to "obeying the husband as unto the Lord." places the husband and the Lord of EQUAL authority in which case the woman would have the choice of which one to obey, I think the choice as to which is obvious. And as for this sin being charged to the husband and not the wife is complete assumption. And taking all other scripture into consideration, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. You make reference to a "moral sin" as if there are different degrees of sin, another assumption not backed up by scripture. We are commanded to obey the law of the land unless it conflicts with Gods law, Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. In this situation,if she were asked why she was forsaking the assembly, her answer would have to be, by commandment of my husband, once more adhering to a single verse and ignoring many others. This is denominational ways of thinking. I do agree that logic can be faulty when it is based upon feelings. Proverbs 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool; But whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. I will reflect long and hard on my "feelings" concerning this matter, I suggest you do the same......In Christian love, James.

[jessie]

in relation to this scripture it mentions "as God is head of the church". God leads the church with christian ways and in "non-sinful" methods. He watches out for his church and gives them ways to be "christ like". if the husband is trying to do Gods will and lead his home they way the scripture says.....then maybe we can worry about it. if not,then its not God like and I wouldnt concern myself with one verse. You have bigger problems. The Bible in the biggest part is telling us what to do to be God like. I dont see a picnic having anything to do with a christian nature uless you are packing a Bible. if you arent listening to what God says to the church...Why are you worrying about what your husband says? Id worry about God. He's more imortant.

[Roger B]

The Bible is perfect, so the answer to the original question must adhere to all scripture. And the God given authority of the man over the woman cannot be shown by any scripture to extend to the point of her obeying him over God. Your logic, as you keep refering to "obeying the husband as unto the Lord." places the husband and the Lord of EQUAL authority in which case the woman would have the choice of which one to obey, I think the choice as to which is obvious.

I have added scripture....

1 Peter 3:1-6 (KJV) … 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
(The Christian lifestyle of a wife might be able to win over the husband.)

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. .................. 6 EVEN AS SARA OBEYED ABRAHAM, CALLING HIM LORD: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
(Abraham’s wife called him lord.)

Ephesians 5:22-23 (KJV) … 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, AS UNTO THE LORD. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
(These two verses show the position that God put husbands over a wife; she is to obey her husband in the likeness that Christ is the head of the church: hence, the husband is the head of the wife.)

Ephesians 5:24-25 (KJV) … 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands IN EVERY THING. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
(This is a perfect scriptural marriage. In real life, I doubt it works this way often, although, my parents (deceased) came very close to matching a scriptural marriage.)

Since, a husband should be regarded by a wife as her lord, as in Christ is the head of the church; it goes without saying that Christ never commanded us to sin, therefore, I believe it stands to reason that a submissive Christian wife will obey her husband in everything, but she will also (if it should happen), recognize a sinful command, and not perform it.

Ephesians 5:28 (KJV) … 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Immoral commands such as prostitution is a direct insult to the husband’s expressed love for his wife, and she will perceive the lack of love for her in such a command. The world doesn’t obey God because they don’t love Him, so, I submit when a husband shows a lack of love for his wife, how is it that she should submit to a command which has no love for her in it? This command isn’t given as in the likeness of a command that Christ would give out of his love for us. I dare say, if a sinful command by Christ was given to us, how could we obey him, or even completely trust Him thereafter?

Thus, I believe an immoral command lacks the love of a husband and should not be obeyed, but it wouldn’t be considered disobedient to God. To be obedient to immorality is to be disobedient to God.

Therefore, I stand on the principles that a sin that is not immoral should be obeyed by a wife. Thus, a command from a lost husband not to attend church should be obeyed because it is not immoral. However, the wife’s response to such a command should be constant prayer to be relieved from it, in that the husband would believe in God through the lifestyle of his wife. And, if the wife doesn’t obey her husband in this matter, the marriage will suffer; this is not the result God wants because I believe logically the contention between them would not allow the wife’s lifestyle to shine through and win him over the Christ.

I also believe when a wife obeys her husband, he sees love, as Christ sees love in our obedience. But, if on the other hand the husband sees ‘power’ in commanding his wife, his heart is in the wrong place, and she will detect his lack of love as he continues to play with her heart; a marriage in trouble is on the horizon.

And as for this sin being charged to the husband and not the wife is complete assumption. And taking all other scripture into consideration, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

I respectfully agree to disagree with your conclusion. Whereas, to not attend church is in the realm of a (lost) husband’s command that she is to obey, and that her counteraction is to continue to love and obey him while praying, and dealing with his soul for Christ.

You make reference to a "moral sin" as if there are different degrees of sin, another assumption not backed up by scripture. We are commanded to obey the law of the land unless it conflicts with Gods law, Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

There are ‘degrees’ of sin, nevertheless, generically all are ‘sins’, but one is greater than another.

If a man desires to rape a woman in his heart, he has raped her in his heart. However, the woman wasn’t physically raped, and she knows nothing of his thoughts; she is totally uninvolved. Which is greater: in the heart sin, or physical rape? In the first place, the man’s thoughts are sin, but if he commits rape on her physically, she has been violated against her will. Both are ‘sins’, but one is greater than the other. One is sinful thoughts, and the other involves the attack and violation of a woman; even a possible pregnancy which ‘thoughts’ cannot produce.

Genesis 18:20 (KJV) … 20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is VERY GRIEVOUS;

Genesis 20:9 (KJV) … 9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom A GREAT SIN? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

Genesis 39:9 (KJV) … 9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this GREAT WICKEDNESS, AND SIN AGAINST GOD?

Exodus 32:31 (KJV) … 31 And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people HAVE SINNED A GREAT SIN, and have made them gods of gold.

2 Kings 17:21 (KJV) … 21 For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the LORD, and made them sin A GREAT SIN.

If a man stole a dollar and murdered your wife, both are sins, but I believe God regards the murder of one’s wife a far greater sin than stealing a dollar.

Did not God consider sodomy a great sin, since He destroyed cities because of it, while at the same time many were lost in sin elsewhere?

Well, this is my position unless I find something scripturally contrary, then I will reconsider my position.

[buck jr]

The references you give are before Christ, there is no doubt that God dealt with man differently in that era, but now, all are commanded to repent, repent of what? "sins". the result of not repenting, "eternal condemnation". You have stated that this marriage is unequally yoked, so how can it be that the unbeliever has authority over the believer. The wife submitting to her husband as unto the Lord can only be in the case of the husband's commands being Godly, it is in conflict with to many other scriptures for anything else to be true. By the way In the Greek & Hebrew the word "great" can also be "many". My intention, truly, is to rightly divide the Word of God, and I pray that you take no offence to our debate, I honestly mean none! And I take none. We are still brothers, I have a post in the Prayer request section, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would respond to it. In Christian love,...James,

[Roger B]

The references you give are before Christ, there is no doubt that God dealt with man differently in that era, but now, all are commanded to repent, repent of what? "sins". the result of not repenting, "eternal condemnation". You have stated that this marriage is unequally yoked, so how can it be that the unbeliever has authority over the believer. The wife submitting to her husband as unto the Lord can only be in the case of the husband's commands being Godly, it is in conflict with to many other scriptures for anything else to be true. By the way In the Greek & Hebrew the word "great" can also be "many". My intention, truly, is to rightly divide the Word of God, and I pray that you take no offence to our debate, I honestly mean none! And I take none. We are still brothers, I have a post in the Prayer request section, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would respond to it. In Christian love,...James,

Yes, God dealt differently with man and his sins than Jesus doesn’t today. I’m not suggesting that God feels any different about man sins, just that Jesus’ dealings are different under grace. I hope you’re not suggesting these differences are a change of heart towards sin, but rather the way Jesus deals with them.

“You have stated that this marriage is unequally yoked, so how can it be that the unbeliever has authority over the believer.”

Not that I’m comparing the government to marriage, but they do have authority over believers, and we are supposed to obey, even paying tribute for things that we don’t agree upon. Even so, I can’t obey them over God.

I haven’t taken any offence, and I haven’t had any intentions of offending you in our debate, but if any part of my debate has ruffled your Spirit, I sincerely ask for your forgiveness.

It brings joy to my heart this morning, that we’ve had debate, and agreed to disagree at this point, but our future together will be bliss and much much more when we see God! I will look forward to meeting you there!

[melchizedek]

1 Peter 3:1-6 (KJV) … 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
(The Christian lifestyle of a wife might be able to win over the husband.)

it appears that you are assuming what that lifestyle actually is... I believe you are not reading the scripture to the end, and and take it out of context...
why would Peter write anything about suffering for righteousness sake? (see vs. 14)
first, Peter tells us to submit to every ordinance of man, for the Lords sake (2:13) does that mean if the government forbids christians to practice christianity, to meet together on the first day of the week to remember Christ's death and ressurection, they should obey that government?
By your reasoning, they must... and that would be sinful, but they would still be OK, since God instituted that government...

sin is sin, no matter how grave or small, it still separates us from God... you must agree with me on this... for a christian, any unrepented sin, separates him/her from God... if a wife desides to listen to her husband, and forsake the assambly, she is commiting a sin, do you not know that disobedience to God is as powerful of a sin as murder? but if she still goes, she may suffer from her husband, but for Christ's sake... (again, see vs 21)

Christian should honour all men, love the brotherhood, fear God, and honour the king (vs 17) the only one we should fear is God... we should honor the rest, give them deserved respect and obey them aslong as what they command does not contradict with what God commands.